Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
Drop in for a natter about anything French related.-
Bayleaf
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:22 am
- Location: NE Dordogne
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
While it would possibly help local economy slightly, if that rule was lifted, I do agree with France and Spain in that if all those citizens from other countries have to follow the rules - why should it be any different for Brits with holiday homes here? Brexit means brexit - we have to suck it up, so should they.
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Doug
- Posts: 2035
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:22 pm
- Location: Nouvelle Aquitaine
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
Today yet another brexshit cock up comes to light.
The long awaited post brexit deal with Canada for imports/exports has fallen through.
So uk exporters of cars and cheese now have a fight on their hands along with importers of Canadian beef etc.
The long awaited post brexit deal with Canada for imports/exports has fallen through.
So uk exporters of cars and cheese now have a fight on their hands along with importers of Canadian beef etc.
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Bayleaf
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:22 am
- Location: NE Dordogne
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
There's a whole "batch" of Brexit, er, bonuses dropped in the last 24 hours ....
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/ ... ay-367576/
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/ ... ay-367576/
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niemeyjt
- Posts: 3942
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:34 pm
- Location: Lausanne (and sometimes Suffolk)
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
"Does anyone have exact evidence?"
I meant evidence that local economies are suffering as is claimed.
I meant evidence that local economies are suffering as is claimed.
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elsie
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:11 am
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
The French govt. has added 2,200 towns to the list of communities that can super-tax second home owners. Amongst them many ski resorts including Briançon, la Grave, The Trois Vallees, la Plagne, Val d’Isere and Chamonix.
The law permits town halls to increase property taxes (taxe d’habitation) by 60%. The justification behind the extra taxes is that second home owners don’t contribute to the local community in terms of buying goods and services. Empty properties will pay 17% of the rental value in the first year, 34% in the second and subsequent years (taxe sur les logements vacants or TLV).
https://pistehors.com/_HyYQYoB1g7SdbHcz ... ome-owners
The law permits town halls to increase property taxes (taxe d’habitation) by 60%. The justification behind the extra taxes is that second home owners don’t contribute to the local community in terms of buying goods and services. Empty properties will pay 17% of the rental value in the first year, 34% in the second and subsequent years (taxe sur les logements vacants or TLV).
https://pistehors.com/_HyYQYoB1g7SdbHcz ... ome-owners
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niemeyjt
- Posts: 3942
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:34 pm
- Location: Lausanne (and sometimes Suffolk)
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
I understood the supertax was to compensate for depriving locals of homes. I am not sure how many people really want to live all year round in a ski resort.
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exile
- Posts: 1951
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:57 pm
- Location: Auvergne Rhone Alpes
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
The very few ski resorts that I know are certainly very busy in the summer. Remember, many (not all) are in the valleys not at the top of a mountain.
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niemeyjt
- Posts: 3942
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:34 pm
- Location: Lausanne (and sometimes Suffolk)
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
There seems confusion between "France" and "EU" rules - as well as "British second home owners" vs "All second home owners". Not to mention the fact that places like Cornwall can increase council tax by 100% - not just 60%. Otherwise:
The Brits forced to leave their dream French homes: How UK nationals have been selling up due to France's 'crazy' post Brexit rules - as bid to change visa rights for second home owners are thrown out by senior judges
Britons are selling their dream French holiday homes because of 'crazy' post-Brexit rules - as a bid to change visa rights for second home owners was thrown out by senior judges.
France's Constitutional Council yesterday rejected an amendment to a major immigration bill which would have permitted British expats to stay in the country for longer than 90 days without the need for a visa.
If passed by the court, the changes would have allowed long-stay visas to be automatically issued to British nationals who own a second home in France, meaning they could spend as much time as they wanted in the country.
But the defeat means all Britons, including homeowners, will only be able to stay for 90 days out of every 180 days without a visa. Those who wish to stay longer will have to apply for a temporary long-stay visa which would last up to six months at a time.
The decision to reject the amendment will come as a major blow for the approximately 86,000 UK nationals who own second homes in France.
Evelyne Heeley, 77, and her husband Brian paid €230,000 (£197,000) for a stunning home in the Occitanie region of southern France in 2004 and soon began spending an average of 140 days a year there during the spring, summer and autumn.
But the couple, who voted Remain in the 2016 referendum, sold up after struggling with the lengthy bureaucratic process of applying for long-term visas - which must be picked up from one of France's three visa application centres in London, Manchester and Edinburgh.
Evelyne Heeley, 77, and her husband Brian paid €230,000 (£197,000) for a stunning home in the Occitanie region of southern France in 2004
The couple, who voted Remain in the 2016 referendum, have now sold up after struggling with the lengthy bureaucratic process of applying for long-term visas
'It's crazy,' Ms Heeley told the i: 'And so we decided in the end that it was too much hassle and we sold, and it sold on the day we put it up for sale.'
She also pointed to the risk of being banned from all 27 countries in the Schengen Area if they overstayed their visa-free period in France.
The decision to reject the amendment for second home owners is final as there is no right of appeal against France's Constitutional Court. But campaigners have vowed to continue their fight through other means.
French senator Martine Berthet tabled the amendment to the immigration bill in November, arguing that pushing British citizens from investing in France's local economies would further add to the worsening problem of empty properties in tourist hotspots.
Her proposal was put forward as an amendment to a broader immigration bill and rejected under Article 45 of the Constitution, which requires that bill amendments must relate to the original aims of the bill.
Ms Berthet blasted the judges' decision as 'political' and vowed to continue her campaign.
But she said it was positive that the Constitutional Court did not criticise the idea in itself and said her party, Les Républicains, would push for a new bill on immigration matters that would include the plan to grant Britons an automatic visa.
The conservative politician said she would speak to the Interior Ministry to see what could be done to help second home owners in the meantime.
'It was a first try, that has not worked, but when we bring it back, it will be a subject that a lot of people already know more about. It allows us to move forward nonetheless,' Ms Berthet told Connexion France.
Just earlier this week, it was reported that British demand for holiday homes in France has increased nearly six-fold after the potential change in law was first mooted.
The highest number of enquiries was for the Alpes-Maritimes area, in south east France, a region that is homes to Cannes, and borders Monaco.
According to the Office for National Statistics, there were an estimated 152,900 Britons living in France in 2017.
The amendment had successfully passed through the two houses of France's senate before being rejected by the Constitutional Council.
Jason Porter, a director at tax specialists Blevins Franks, told The Telegraph: 'The element [to the immigration bill] for UK second home owners was always going to be rejected as it was not treating everyone equally as it does not apply for the other 61 countries eligible for visa entry into France.'
The fallout from Brexit means second home owners in France face a litany of problems.
Early last year, France hit British homeowners with a rise of up to 60 per cent in council tax charges, adding further to their woes.
One British couple told the Mail they were thinking of selling their five-bed home in France, built in the 15th Century, due to the tax increases.
Creative director Simon Amster, 55, and his wife bought the five-bed 15th century hideaway in the village of Sauveterre-de-Bearn near Biarritz for just 50,000 euros (£42,000) eight years ago.
The couple, who live in Lewes, east Sussex, pay 1,400 euros in annual property taxes. But they are among 86,000 British households with second homes who now face a significant tax rise thanks to President Macron's latest reforms.
Mr Amster said: 'Macron's tax hikes have made us consider selling. All these additional costs mean our second home, which used to be a source of pleasure, is now a source of worry.
'My wife's mother lives in the neighbouring village so it is really useful for us to have the house so we can look after her if we need to.
'There's also a lot of uncertainty about how badly these taxes will affect us. We're expecting quite a big jump, maybe around 20 per cent.
'It's a first world problem, but it makes what used to feel like a relatively affordable holiday something which is now a serious financial concern.'
Last year, the residence tax was an average €775 (£664) for a house and €943 (£808) for a flat, but this will go up considerably.
There are already 156 councils in Brittany, which is hugely popular with Britons, which have been given authorisation to increase the residence tax by up to 60 per cent.
The surcharge is applicable in places where the housing market is under pressure and where locals struggle to buy or rent homes. It is designed to discourage second homes.
The surcharge was initially limited to 1,136 councils in big cities and tourist resorts, but has now been extended to a further 2,263 authorities in rural areas.
France's second local tax, called the Property Tax, which applies to both main and second homes, is also going up by double digits.
Paris council, for example, has voted for a 51.9 per cent increase, while the Alpine city of Grenoble is imposing a 25 per cent rise.
source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... n-out.html
The Brits forced to leave their dream French homes: How UK nationals have been selling up due to France's 'crazy' post Brexit rules - as bid to change visa rights for second home owners are thrown out by senior judges
Britons are selling their dream French holiday homes because of 'crazy' post-Brexit rules - as a bid to change visa rights for second home owners was thrown out by senior judges.
France's Constitutional Council yesterday rejected an amendment to a major immigration bill which would have permitted British expats to stay in the country for longer than 90 days without the need for a visa.
If passed by the court, the changes would have allowed long-stay visas to be automatically issued to British nationals who own a second home in France, meaning they could spend as much time as they wanted in the country.
But the defeat means all Britons, including homeowners, will only be able to stay for 90 days out of every 180 days without a visa. Those who wish to stay longer will have to apply for a temporary long-stay visa which would last up to six months at a time.
The decision to reject the amendment will come as a major blow for the approximately 86,000 UK nationals who own second homes in France.
Evelyne Heeley, 77, and her husband Brian paid €230,000 (£197,000) for a stunning home in the Occitanie region of southern France in 2004 and soon began spending an average of 140 days a year there during the spring, summer and autumn.
But the couple, who voted Remain in the 2016 referendum, sold up after struggling with the lengthy bureaucratic process of applying for long-term visas - which must be picked up from one of France's three visa application centres in London, Manchester and Edinburgh.
Evelyne Heeley, 77, and her husband Brian paid €230,000 (£197,000) for a stunning home in the Occitanie region of southern France in 2004
The couple, who voted Remain in the 2016 referendum, have now sold up after struggling with the lengthy bureaucratic process of applying for long-term visas
'It's crazy,' Ms Heeley told the i: 'And so we decided in the end that it was too much hassle and we sold, and it sold on the day we put it up for sale.'
She also pointed to the risk of being banned from all 27 countries in the Schengen Area if they overstayed their visa-free period in France.
The decision to reject the amendment for second home owners is final as there is no right of appeal against France's Constitutional Court. But campaigners have vowed to continue their fight through other means.
French senator Martine Berthet tabled the amendment to the immigration bill in November, arguing that pushing British citizens from investing in France's local economies would further add to the worsening problem of empty properties in tourist hotspots.
Her proposal was put forward as an amendment to a broader immigration bill and rejected under Article 45 of the Constitution, which requires that bill amendments must relate to the original aims of the bill.
Ms Berthet blasted the judges' decision as 'political' and vowed to continue her campaign.
But she said it was positive that the Constitutional Court did not criticise the idea in itself and said her party, Les Républicains, would push for a new bill on immigration matters that would include the plan to grant Britons an automatic visa.
The conservative politician said she would speak to the Interior Ministry to see what could be done to help second home owners in the meantime.
'It was a first try, that has not worked, but when we bring it back, it will be a subject that a lot of people already know more about. It allows us to move forward nonetheless,' Ms Berthet told Connexion France.
Just earlier this week, it was reported that British demand for holiday homes in France has increased nearly six-fold after the potential change in law was first mooted.
The highest number of enquiries was for the Alpes-Maritimes area, in south east France, a region that is homes to Cannes, and borders Monaco.
According to the Office for National Statistics, there were an estimated 152,900 Britons living in France in 2017.
The amendment had successfully passed through the two houses of France's senate before being rejected by the Constitutional Council.
Jason Porter, a director at tax specialists Blevins Franks, told The Telegraph: 'The element [to the immigration bill] for UK second home owners was always going to be rejected as it was not treating everyone equally as it does not apply for the other 61 countries eligible for visa entry into France.'
The fallout from Brexit means second home owners in France face a litany of problems.
Early last year, France hit British homeowners with a rise of up to 60 per cent in council tax charges, adding further to their woes.
One British couple told the Mail they were thinking of selling their five-bed home in France, built in the 15th Century, due to the tax increases.
Creative director Simon Amster, 55, and his wife bought the five-bed 15th century hideaway in the village of Sauveterre-de-Bearn near Biarritz for just 50,000 euros (£42,000) eight years ago.
The couple, who live in Lewes, east Sussex, pay 1,400 euros in annual property taxes. But they are among 86,000 British households with second homes who now face a significant tax rise thanks to President Macron's latest reforms.
Mr Amster said: 'Macron's tax hikes have made us consider selling. All these additional costs mean our second home, which used to be a source of pleasure, is now a source of worry.
'My wife's mother lives in the neighbouring village so it is really useful for us to have the house so we can look after her if we need to.
'There's also a lot of uncertainty about how badly these taxes will affect us. We're expecting quite a big jump, maybe around 20 per cent.
'It's a first world problem, but it makes what used to feel like a relatively affordable holiday something which is now a serious financial concern.'
Last year, the residence tax was an average €775 (£664) for a house and €943 (£808) for a flat, but this will go up considerably.
There are already 156 councils in Brittany, which is hugely popular with Britons, which have been given authorisation to increase the residence tax by up to 60 per cent.
The surcharge is applicable in places where the housing market is under pressure and where locals struggle to buy or rent homes. It is designed to discourage second homes.
The surcharge was initially limited to 1,136 councils in big cities and tourist resorts, but has now been extended to a further 2,263 authorities in rural areas.
France's second local tax, called the Property Tax, which applies to both main and second homes, is also going up by double digits.
Paris council, for example, has voted for a 51.9 per cent increase, while the Alpine city of Grenoble is imposing a 25 per cent rise.
source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... n-out.html
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DaveW
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:52 pm
- Location: Alpes Maritimes 06
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
It’s a Daily Mail article so it’s full of crap.
One thing I do know is that France is making it harder for Brits to come through Nice airport to work in Monaco, mainly professionals. The reason is that Monaco wont let them live in Monaco, they don’t pass the rich test, and France imposes the no work, restricted stay rule.
God bless Brexit.
One thing I do know is that France is making it harder for Brits to come through Nice airport to work in Monaco, mainly professionals. The reason is that Monaco wont let them live in Monaco, they don’t pass the rich test, and France imposes the no work, restricted stay rule.
God bless Brexit.
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niemeyjt
- Posts: 3942
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:34 pm
- Location: Lausanne (and sometimes Suffolk)
Lifting the 90 day Visa Rule
Where do said frontalier workers pay their taxes - might this have something to do with it.
Here, I think GE frontalier workers pay taxes in France whereas VD takes a slice of the taxes.
Here, I think GE frontalier workers pay taxes in France whereas VD takes a slice of the taxes.