Preparing for difficult times

[Lori]

We just had an appointment with the Notaire to discuss a last testament. First of all, yes, you can have a document drawn up to designate you would like to your foreign Will to be followed as it would in your home country. However, you cannot disinherit children by French law AND the inheritance taxes will apply in France. They cannot be avoided. Children from a previous union (married or not) cannot be disinherited either. Percentages are drawn up to cover all 'known' children. Documents should also include the stipulation that the surviving spouse can remain in the family home until they die. However, IF the surviving spouse wishes to sell the house, he/she must have the agreement of all children. If agreement is made, each child and surviving spouse will be told what their percentage of the proceeds will be. Apparently, if you die in France, while domiciled in France, none of the above can be changed no matter what you foreign will states.

When asked how France would know about all global assets. The answer was that a thorough search is made. And when asked how retirement/pension accounts that already have a legal beneficiary will be handled, we were told that if taxes were paid on that in the foreign country, they would not have to be paid again in France. But, when asking specifically whether France would try to split these funds amongst children when a legally designated beneficiary is in writing (in our cases the surviving spouse), the answer was that it could get complicated, but that in principle, the stated legal beneficiary should remain the only beneficiary on those accounts. All other assets will be split amongst surviving spouse and known children.

We were there for an hour and a half. It was eye opening. He went over SO SO much.

We just had an appointment with the Notaire to discuss a last testament. First of all, yes, you can have a document drawn up to designate you would like to your foreign Will to be followed as it would in your home country. However, you cannot disinherit children by French law AND the inheritance taxes will apply in France. They cannot be avoided. Children from a previous union (married or not) cannot be disinherited either. Percentages are drawn up to cover all 'known' children. Documents should also include the stipulation that the surviving spouse can remain in the family home until they die. However, IF the surviving spouse wishes to sell the house, he/she must have the agreement of all children. If agreement is made, each child and surviving spouse will be told what their percentage of the proceeds will be. Apparently, if you die in France, while domiciled in France, none of the above can be changed no matter what you foreign will states.

When asked how France would know about all global assets. The answer was that a thorough search is made. And when asked how retirement/pension accounts that already have a legal beneficiary will be handled, we were told that if taxes were paid on that in the foreign country, they would not have to be paid again in France. But, when asking specifically whether France would try to split these funds amongst children when a legally designated beneficiary is in writing (in our cases the surviving spouse), the answer was that it could get complicated, but that in principle, the stated legal beneficiary should remain the only beneficiary on those accounts. All other assets will be split amongst surviving spouse and known children.

We were there for an hour and a half. It was eye opening. He went over SO SO much.

[exile]

I did our reciprocal English wills after having a translation client who had to pay us an arm and a leg to translate the FR probate doument to collect just £5k capital in the UK. No need here as we did a marriage contract which enables the FR side to be dealt with easily. Easy enough to download a simple GB will from tinternet, provided there aren't children from a previous marriage.

We are in the process of trying to draw up wills. Is their an internet form/will that can be downloaded to include children from a previous marriage? We have one child between us and I have 2 children from a previous marriage.

I believe in English law all three children could receive equal share of our estate so if it is possible, would prefer an English will to be lodged in France. I believe this is acceptable?

You do need legal advice on this and I would recommend consulting an English speaking notaire and/or an English solicitor versed in French tax law.

You can certainly leave everything split between the three children but French tax rules will apply even if it is an English will.

As I understand it (and please do not take my word as gospel) if your OH dies first and leaves everything to you then everything will be straightforward and everything gets split 3 ways. (There are other ways to construct the split.) If you die first then your half of the estate can be split 4 ways - hubby and the three children. When hubby dies then your joint child can inherit their share straightforwardly, but your two by the previous marriage have no legal connection to your OH and so will be taxed heavily on virtually all of what is left to inherit. It is messy.

There are ways around this for example you might be able to let all three children inherit the property in its entirety on the first death with the surviving spouse allowed to live in the property - usufruct. But that may not be the most efficient way to do things depending on the value of the estate.

[Lori]

But that may not be the most efficient way to do things depending on the value of the estate.

Yes, the Notaire was very clear about that. There are several options for the surviving spouse and we never know when one of us will die. That makes a bit of a difference in how you choose to set things up.

[rabbit]

I have just been through the wills trip. The local notaire said we needn’t do anything but we asked a French advocate operating in U.K. for advice. He said the Notaire was correct but it would take a year for probate to be settled. He advised us to hand write our wills in English with specific wording to specify our wishes for them to be interpreted under English law. He also advised us to have them translated into French by an authorised translator and to have an English will for any English assets

[L Austin France]

We were there for an hour and a half. It was eye opening. He went over SO SO much.

Did you discuss the clause Tontine?
We have this written into our house act & understand & hope this allows automatic transfer of the jointly held property to the surviving spouse with no tax etc implications.

[Lori]

There will be no tax implications for the surviving spouse in our case.

[Hotrodder]

Documents should also include the stipulation that the surviving spouse can remain in the family home until they die. However, IF the surviving spouse wishes to sell the house, he/she must have the agreement of all children. If agreement is made, each child and surviving spouse will be told what their percentage of the proceeds will be.

This is the reason we had to abandon my OH's house in the Charente. Her greedy pig step children wouldn't consent to a sale because they wanted more than the share they were entitled to under French law, nor would they agree to help with the cost of any repairs as long as she lived in it. So we shut the door and moved to Brittany and my stone hovel.

[DaveW]

Having gone through the succession process I would advise talking to a good notaire to make life easier for you and your kids.

[L Austin France]

There will be no tax implications for the surviving spouse in our case.

Is that because of Tontine?

[Lori]

No.