Far right surge in EU elections

[exile]

Indeed Dave.

Think of all those things that the man on the Clapham omnibus would vote for:
Return of the death penalty
Turning back or even sinking migrant boats in the Channel
Return of pension age to 65 - and maybe return to 60 for women
National Service


Indeed just about anything that is popular/populist without thought given to the ramifications. The UK electorate (at least) is insufficiently politically educated in such matters to be given that power.

[niemeyjt]

The problem is that if the government governs, and passes bills no-one likes, then all that remains is for the electorate to choose an alternative government - which is where we are now.

And referenda work both ways. Were a right-wing government to pass an unpleasant bill, the electorate would be able to overturn that also. Referenda are not only to control centrists.

@exile - in which case education may be the issue.

[DaveW]

Indeed just about anything that is popular/populist without thought given to the ramifications. The UK electorate (at least) is insufficiently politically educated in such matters to be given that power.

It’s not just education, it’s manipulation and abuse by the financial and political entities. They draw in the educated and I just wish I understood how; take Trump and Johnson as prime examples. Déjà-vu the 1930’s, we just never learn!

[exile]

I think we actual agree Dave. It is why I wrote "politically educated" and not just educated precisely because there are plenty of well educated people who show little idea of political issues. That is why they get drawn into populist movements. I might even suggest the BloJo was himself politically naïve in many respects; and while he undoubtedly was adept in manipulating the populace I sometimes wonder if he understood the consequences of his actions and indeed wonder who was actually pulling the puppet strings.

[DaveW]

The people pulling the strings are those that are manufacturing the bombs and hi-tech weapons that are enabling the state of Israel to commit genocide.
Lot’s of money to be made, particularly when Gaza doesn’t exist and there are Mediterranean homes for the victors and lot’s of oil/gas off the coast of Gaza.
Johnson is a yesterday man, his fortune is made and he will be moving on to his next concubine.

[glazedallover]

I’m not a fan of government by plebiscite , you elect a government and they should govern. Referendums are open to abuse and populism- take Brexit as a perfect example.

It seems to work quite well in Switzerland .

[DaveW]

Ah Switzerland, the pillar of democracy. It graced women the right to vote in 1971 by plebiscite, after a few tries where only men could vote. It wasn’t until 1990 that all women were allowed to vote in all cantons, thanks to the referendum obsession. The male only government did a great job there.

That’s why Switzerland is not a good example.

[exile]

It also played a rather dubious neutral role in the second world war and probably only got away with it because there were bigger fish to fry to the North and East and dare I suggest it, because individuals may or may not have had accounts in various Swiss institutions

[glazedallover]

So Switzerland were hardly pioneers in the right to vote for Women. Fine. I believe they now form 32% of the Swiss Parliament. They were dodgy in WWII ? The Uk has hardly been a paragon of virtue in global conflict. The point made by neimeyjt was that referenda was a way forward and it works in the current Swiss system regardless of their past history or what you personally think of them.

[exile]

They were dodgy in WWII ?

But that might just suggest how politically aware the Swiss were and are. Surrounded on all sides it was perhaps inevitable that neutrality might need adjustment. Today there is a sense of that neutrality adjustment vis a vis Russia and the Ukraine. With avowed neutrality, EU sanctions against Russia look to be mirrored in Switzerland - again surrounded?