Capital gains tax

[hughnique]

Being close to the initial signing on the sale of our house, we have decided, at this stage, to appoint our own notary to ensure we don't get screwed Initially bought in 2005, old barn 10 metres from the house in the same grounds, converted by me in to a gite, and finally let for 6 separate lettings in 2018, then it stopped and hasn't been used since apart from when friends and family visit. To cut it short the notary appointed initially by our buyer has muted the question of CGT, but only on the Gite which they are calling a maison secondaire. Am I going round the bloody twist, my understanding is that as this is our residence principale CGT is not applicable, yet both the notary's seem unsure of the implications, I assume our appointee is going to rewrite the sales agreement to reflect this but even he said it is up to the impots as to the final verdict.

[MAD87]

I'd have thought any notaire worth his/her salt could get the answer in 5 minutes by ringing the local impôts.

[RobertArthur]

I'm not an expert in French tax law. Only a thought for what it's worth. In the case of a résidence principale all the dépendances (garages, aires de stationnement, granges, cours, brico shed, little gîte etc.…) included you pay only one taxe foncières for everything, no taxe d'habitation anymore. In the case of une maison secondaire you still pay those two taxes. Question: did Mr. Taxman impose you for both these taxes? In the past or present?

The regs or not crystal clear, read this for example (the word peut):

Taxe d’habitation : cette taxe peut concerner un gîte si le logement reste à disposition du propriétaire en dehors des périodes de location. Lorsqu’il ne s’agit pas d’une résidence principale ni d’un local affecté uniquement à la location, l’administration fiscale peut considérer que cette taxe est due. Source.

It has been for some a rough ride. A local farmer, his main building and home on one side of the road, huge grange for his tractors, cows and other animals on the other side of the road, always taxed as being one undivided property, saw after the changes in the taxe d'habitation regs his grange promoted to the maison principale league. And his house, already for generations in the family, to the league of maisons secondaires. Two years later and the problem is still there......talking to a brick wall, even if you are fluent in French from early childhood.

[hughnique]

Thank you Robert some very interesting points therein especially the fact that we do not pay TH, on anything here so how it can be designated as a MS is beyond me. I have just dug out paperwork regarding the conversion, barn to Gite, granted in 2008, finished in 2010, and let 6 times in 2018. Seems a long time between finish and letting, but I can't remember why the delay. I know we got off to a bad start trying to advertise it, and it wasn't until we went with the robbing buggers, Novasol, that we had some continuity of bookings. Time will tell.

[RobertArthur]

Monsieur le notaire, plus royaliste que le roi? Running for cover for non existing fire? Afraid of Monsieur le fisc hiding in Château de Bercy in Paris?


Edit:

Have been reading several French discussions. Simplified question: une annexe habitable peut-elle être considérée comme une habitation secondaire? As long as it doesn't have its own numéro de rue and no separate road for access, as long as it belongs to the same parcelle(s) cadastrale(s) as the the main building (see the taxe foncière), as long as it is not larger than the main building, my understanding is that your annexe is outside the standard defintion. Additional considerations: if this annexe habitable gets its electricity from the same raccordement électrique as your house, the same for the water supply and the fosse septique, if I were a lawyer, I would have a tough job proving that it is has to be considered as une maison secondaire. This is only the opinion of simple believer in Ohm's law (1827). Almost two centuries later still relevant, although there are some green all-electric lobbyists who seem to have never heard of him or dismiss it as just an opinion. Don't look back, prepare for the future...