Climate Change, Carbon Emissions

[Biloute]

I think CO2 is also output during the production of the Uranium for said power stations.

Possibly, but, as I said, the question is not "some or none"... the true question is the ratio of anything (concrete, CO2, etc...) / energy produced. And it would be interesting to know these ratios for all the technologies (nuclear, coal plants, dams, windmills, solar panels...)
As examples:
- dams generate CO2 (the technician who goes to the dam everyday to check everything) : the ratio CO2 / energy is peanuts
- coal plants generate an enormous quantity of CO2
I would even add that, when installing a windmill, you potentially imply a generation of a lot of CO2. Because when there's no wind or too much wind, you need an alternative generator which can only be a coal plant because it's flexibility at being started with short notice.

[Hotrodder]

One thing is quite clear to me. A lot of people are making a lot of money out of this "crisis" selling us alternatives that are supposed to be "greener". ie. electric cars that need batteries that include mined materials that are in short supply and that will need to be recycled into (what?) at some point. They are now targetting woodburners as being bad. A shame. I was tinkering with the idea of a steam powered car.

[niemeyjt]

I was tinkering with the idea of a steam powered car.

Go for it!!!

[michael86]

I was thinking of fitting a windmill on the bonnet of an electric car. The faster I drive, the more electricity it will generate. Perpetual motion, do you think it will work.
Michael

[Liz]

No

[basquesteve]

The Uk government is in a different world Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy, Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs, The Rt Hon Kwasi Kwarteng MP, and The Rt Hon George Eustice MP
Published
21 September 2021


Short term arrangement agreed with CF Fertilisers to enable immediate restart of CO2 production
Quick and decisive action taken by the Government to protect businesses and consumers
Agreement lasts for three weeks and will ensure immediate supplies to the food sector remain in place
Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng has today (21 September 2021) announced an agreement with CF Fertilisers to ensure the continued supply of CO2 to UK businesses – an essential component of the national economy.

The exceptional short term arrangement with CF Fertilisers will allow the company to immediately restart operations and produce CO2 at its Billingham plant. The Government will provide limited financial support for CF Fertilisers’ operating costs for three weeks whilst the CO2 market adapts to global gas prices.

CF Fertilisers produces around 60 per cent of UK’s CO2, used primarily by the food sector.

The Government has held discussions with the main food producers, their trade bodies and the major supermarkets and they are committed to doing whatever it takes to move to a sustainable market-based solution by the end of the three-week period.

Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng said:

This agreement will ensure the many critical industries that rely on a stable supply of CO2 have the resources they require to avoid disruption.

The quick and decisive action we have taken to resolve the issue shows the seriousness with which we have approached it.

In our ongoing response to manage the impact of global gas price rises, we will continue to protect businesses and consumers.

Environment Secretary George Eustice said:

We have acted decisively to ensure that CO2 supplies, which are critical to some of our food sectors, continue to be available following some exceptional events.

However this is a short term intervention to provide the space and time for market adjustment.

The measures announced today follow extensive engagement with critical industries to understand the pressures they could face as the result of a restricted supply of CO2, including from the Business Secretary and the Environment Secretary. The action taken today shows the seriousness with which the Government has approached this issue to protect businesses and consumers.

The UK benefits from having a diverse range of gas supply sources, with sufficient capacity to more than meet demand. The UK’s gas system continues to operate reliably and we do not anticipate any increased risk of supply emergencies this winter.

[exile]

The amount of CO2 they produce is minimal compared with that coming from other sources;
cement production
transportation
alcoholic beverages

and at least the CO2 they produce is used before being released to atmosphere.

[Pachapapa]

[mention]exile[/mention]
Puzzling me on cement.
The CO2 element involved is CaCO3.
Heat reduces it to lime CaO.
As a constituent of concrete the CaO element combines with CO2 to reform a solid rock "in situ".
Seems to me a convenient and efficient way of transporting solid rock around the world!

[exile]

@exile
Puzzling me on cement.
The CO2 element involved is CaCO3.
Heat reduces it to lime CaO.
As a constituent of concrete the CaO element combines with CO2 to reform a solid rock "in situ".
Seems to me a convenient and efficient way of transporting solid rock around the world!

Two points both important:
1. Cement does not recombine with CO2 to make concrete. The reaction is a hydration reaction - which is why we add water. Cement left in store will slowly combine with atmospheric CO2 and become inert regarding concrete making. So cement as a material generates CO2 in large quantities.
2. In order to get that Calcium Oxide (CaO) you need a lot of energy which today is almost exclusively generated through burning gas, coal or petroleum products - more CO2.

This from Wiki:

Cement starts to set when mixed with water, which causes a series of hydration chemical reactions. The constituents slowly hydrate and the mineral hydrates solidify and harden. The interlocking of the hydrates gives cement its strength. Contrary to popular belief, hydraulic cement does not set by drying out — proper curing requires maintaining the appropriate moisture content necessary for the hydration reactions during the setting and the hardening processes. If hydraulic cements dry out during the curing phase, the resulting product can be insufficiently hydrated and significantly weakened.

and this:

If the cement industry were a country, it would be the third largest carbon dioxide emitter in the world with up to 2.8 billion tonnes, surpassed only by China and the United States.[6] The initial calcination reaction in the production of cement is responsible for about 4% of global CO
2 emissions.[7] The overall process is responsible for about 8% of global CO
2 emissions, as the cement kiln in which the reaction occurs is typically fired by coal or petroleum coke due to the luminous flame required to heat the kiln by radiant heat transfer.[8] As a result, the production of cement is a major contributor to climate change.




I fear Steve has misunderstood one part of the government announcement where it said that

"CF Fertilisers produces around 60 per cent of UK’s CO2, used primarily by the food sector."

The 60% relates to CO2 produced for sale. It is most certainly not 60% of CO2 emissions.
I have to say that if you are not in the know, it is a very easy misunderstanding to make.

[Pachapapa]

Difference-Between-Slaked-Lime-and-Lime-Water-fig-1.jpg

So nice lime/chaux is better than nasty cement..