Ukraine

[tagh]

Very conformist and often insular.

[niemeyjt]

Yes - but we are discussing democracy - or lack thereof.

[tagh]

Democracy embraces difference; not sure the Swiss one does that.

[niemeyjt]

It embraces consensus - and the ability for anyone to be able to bring about a change - a Swiss citizen can change laws (with support) - it is not necessary to bribe someone.

And it has PR - which is allows diversity of opinions - which I would say does embrace differences.

[Blaze]

Back to Ukraine .....

Most of the refugees crossing are women and children. Families are being split up because men of 18 to 60 are considered to be of fighting age. Most will have had no training, may never have even held a gun yet will be expected to be prepared to fight. The loss of life among the resisting Ukranians is likely to be horrendous.

The situation appears calm and under control, for now. But that is largely because cars are waiting eight hours to cross, apparently because Ukrainian border guards are checking that men of fighting age do not leave, and their Slovak counterparts are registering every arrival

In another BBC article, it says that France is sending weapons and equipment to Ukraine. But it also adds that urban warfare will mean heavy losses on both sides.

[niemeyjt]

Exactly - it is, once again, the innocent families who pay the price of the ambitions and duplicity of the politicians.

But is it any different really from previous events?

[Bayleaf]

Yes, it's bringing it home to me. Our 19yr old son has a Ukranian friend who's been keeping in touch as him and his family flee from the East (they were quite close to the Russian border). If he's anything like our son - spending much time on computers, it breaks my heart to think they'll go into battle mentally and physically unprepared. I don't know how far they've got - our door would certainly be open to them, but it sounds like him and his Dad won't be able to leave the country now.

[niemeyjt]

I think for many, they have not known war and have not completed national service - and not just in Ukraine. War is an alien thing - thus all the more shocking when it happens.

[Blaze]

I think for many, they have not known war and have not completed national service - and not just in Ukraine. War is an alien thing - thus all the more shocking when it happens.

And for those who have, especially when it concerns the Russians, it's all the more terrifying ...

[niemeyjt]

For anyone who wants to help - https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsion ... ebi-armiyi