Electric Car Etiquette

[DominicBest]

Most people know that cars have batteries and that in most cases changing the battery when it becomes inefficient is a simple task. For many cars however that simple theory falls short. Anyone out there who has a car with an automatic stop/start facility might be in for a shock when they replace their battery when they see the price. That’s because the battery although looking like a traditional battery is far more complex and is actually a combination of the features found in a regular starter battery and the features found in a leisure battery like those used in motor caravans and boats. To move on through hybrid vehicles to full EVs and the situation becomes far more complicated and a world away from the easily replaceable starter battery.
The batteries in a modern EV are both large and heavy. They tend to be placed low in the vehicle to allow for better handling and their weight is distributed carefully. The systems controlling the battery packs are complex and have to take into account charging rates, discharge rates, regeneration and battery temperature. They are installed early on in the manufacturing process and the rest of the car is built around them. They are removable but it’s a complicated, time consuming and expensive task.
When I read a post suggesting that the answer to recharging issues was simple and could be solved by simply replacing the battery like you might do in a household appliance that showed a lack of understanding of the problem. There might be other people with no knowledge of EV construction who read the post and think what a great idea, how simple. They will have been misinformed. Do you expect others who understand that an idea that is unworkable should just stand back and allow others to be fed false information?

[curtis]

I had the dubious pleasure of replacing the "stop/start" battery on my modern car. Agreed the price was eye watering. In any case I switch that off all the time as I find it annoying.

[Spectrum]

While not wanting to get drawn into this debate, at the end of the day its your choice to do as you please, I have had a Hybrid which we didn't like, so back to a big 4x4 truck which we love There are some 4x4 electric cars but very expensive Jag and Lexus but Iam sure more will come along, as for "stop start" there are two versions of this the first users your alternator to start the car, ie a currant is put through it and it acts like an electric motor, our smaller hybrid had this type, the big truck has the other type, which has been around for donkeys years ie the starter motor, the big difference in the formers case you don't hear anything, obviously in the latters case you will hear it, whether this make a difference to the size and type of battery I don't know.

[Char]

When I read a post suggesting that the answer to recharging issues was simple and could be solved by simply replacing the battery like you might do in a household appliance that showed a lack of understanding of the problem. There might be other people with no knowledge of EV construction who read the post and think what a great idea, how simple. They will have been misinformed. Do you expect others who understand that an idea that is unworkable should just stand back and allow others to be fed false information?

I assume the last bit was directed at me. It's called a conversation Dominic. What I do expect is that every member of this forum feels able to contribute without another member being rude, or dismissive of their opinions.

I think the three days needed to take the whole car apart to change the batteries might make charging the faster option.

The reason for that is the way cars are made these days.

It seems that designers decide the outside shape and appearance of the car, then the engineers and production people try to fit the actual machinery etc. into it.

Oh dear. You really don’t have a clue. Perhaps the six year old’s toy is the extent of your experience as well.

Example above - Nomoss was, as far as I can see reading the previous posts on this thread, saying that had car manufacturers designed the car around the motive power rather than trying to adapt existing vehicles we might have ended up with an easier solution to changing the batteries the same way as we change the gas cylinder on our cooker.
He didn't deserve the response you gave him neither did @curtis who is a 'petrol head' and has vast knowledge and experience with dealing with cars and has as much right to an opinion as anyone else.

It's an interesting discussion and I was merely trying to keep it going nicely.

[Blaze]

It's an interesting discussion and I was merely trying to keep it going nicely.

+1

[RobertArthur]

Returning to Antonia's question, as long as there are not too many (public) charging stations, do they accept my type of credit card (different networks), not broken (maintenance problems), I may suppose that every EV owner is familiar with daily or weekly check and double check procedures. I can't remember anybody arriving here with the message: Sorry, not enough fuel, do you have by any chance a jerrycan to fill up the tank a little bit?

About replacing the massive amounts of fuel energy by electricity: how to produce it, how to double the capacity of the grid, where to find all the lithium needed to produce all these not very easy to recycle batteries? A major batterytech breakthrough on the horizon? The EV as an intermediate step towards something else, hydrogen?

Others have been thinking in more detail about these simple questions, a quick google found this US guy doing some rough calculations (in 2014) and here in France an interesting article on the website of Frandroid. An ongoing discussion.

Once again back to Antonia: in case of emergency, okay, charge your EV, here is the socket. When? In wintertime when the battery capacity goes down quickly, limiting car range. Turn on the heater? You better don't....Fuel cars are less efficient, in wintertime however the extra heat produced by the engine doesn't impact your range.

[Nomoss]

............... Talking about breaking down, how good is the roadside assistance at the moment? I doubt there are many garages au fait yet. Is there a specialist electric breakdown service?

A good point. I'm afraid many garages may be scared of dealing with something new to them.
I bought an NSU Ro80, with the Wankel engine,in 1968, and drove it from the factory in Germany to England via Italy and France.
Most NSU agents outside Germany were used to motorcycles and very small cars, and were unprepared for this car.
At one dealership in France someone quickly moved round a corner when he saw me driving in. The boss then told me that the person who was trained for the Ro80 was out.
In the UK the ignition key was snapped off in the lock because the mechanic had never seen a steering lock before and tried to force it to turn. It took weeks to get a new lock.
My wife took the car into a dealer in Paris because the dashboard wiring overheated. They cured the overheating, but some of the switches did different things afterwards. She didn't notice this immediately, and had to drive to Algeria with the wrong switches operating the lights, as she was scared another dealer would make it worse.
I wrote to the factory about these problems, and they eventually agreed to supply me with a full workshop manual. I was then able to be independent on their dealers. I still have it, it must be quite rare.
I have had three Ro80's over the years, and became very familiar with maintaining them. I restored the last one and installed a tuned 175HP Mazda rotary engine, and after tuning achieved far better fuel economy than the original engine, under 12 l/100 km instead of 20. Still too thirsty for regular use.
The most ridiculous event was when I had a puncture and found I couldn't shift the wheel nuts. My wife found a phone box and called the AA, who transferred her to a nearby garage. They said they didn't have anyone qualified to work on a Ro80, and it was only with difficulty she persuaded them it was only a problem of tight wheel nuts.

[RobertArthur]

Nomoss, probably I already published this article, here or another forum, by my friend "Chris le Bricoleur" about the restoration of his classic NSU Ro80, now in the collection (donation) of The National Automobile Museum in Mulhouse.

[Nomoss]

I sold mine in 2015. It is in a private collection in Japan. Here are some pics of the finished job. I had to fabricate a few parts when adapting the engine. Cooling was by a Merc fan. I kept the original vacuum operated clutch, torque convertor, gearbox and transmission.
I registered it as a vehicule de collection when the work was finished.

Front 1.05.jpg

15.11.30 Trausse.JPG

Radiator front.jpg

Engine R 01.jpg

Engine L 01.jpg

[RobertArthur]

Something rather different: under the hood of an electric Citroën 2CV, a modification by a Swiss engineer.