Democracy in France

[Wilbro]

Referendums can be dangerous and/or manipulated. Brexit is a prime example and I doubt if at least 80% understood the ramifications of what they were voting for.

[niemeyjt]

Wasn't that a failure by Cameron and Co then to properly communicate, instead of just relying on Project Fear Mk 2 hoping to repeat the outcome of Indyref?

[MAD87]

With a solely party manifesto-based system like the UK and France, you have to pick the least bad mix. I think Macron included a pension age hike in his manifesto - and he was voted in . . .

As I've said several times, iI remind the complainers that they voted for Macron, and yes, the age hike was included in his manifesto.
If they don't like the system of feeling forced to vote for someone they don't like to avoid someone they like even less, why don't they do something about it - like changing the constitution ?

The problem with allowing "the people" to challenge the government is that most people don't have a long term or global view, most can't see beyond next week.
A referendum initiated by the government is one thing, conceding to mob rule is another.

+ 1
@niemeyjt If Blaze is anything like me, French words get anglicised. I suspect "global" here means 'overall' and not "mondiale".

Referenda would be an unnecessary expense (imo), one that France can ill afford. As has already been pointed out, the referendum on this subject was the last presidential election.

[Blaze]

If Blaze is anything like me, French words get anglicised. I suspect "global" here means 'overall' and not "mondiale".

Thanks Mad, that is indeed what I meant ! It's hard not to use gallicisms in English (or is it anglicisms in French ?!)

I don't think having a referendum in France would change anything : if the result was not what "the people" wanted, they'd want to do another and another until they got what they wanted.

[niemeyjt]

By definition the result would be what the people wanted. Whether it is what the more stroppy people want is another matter.

However as I say above it would in general terms allow elements of a manifesto to be changed / challenged whilst still allowing people to vote for someone rather than against someone.

[MAD87]

By definition the result would be what the people wanted. Whether it is what the more stroppy people want is another matter.

However as I say above it would in general terms allow elements of a manifesto to be changed / challenged whilst still allowing people to vote for someone rather than against someone.

If the objectors bothered to vote!
As for "getting what / who they want", I've watched the French moaning about each president and his policies for 32 years. There's never an alternative put forward and when you ask the moaner concerned, it's more than likely that they never voted at all.

[Nomoss]

Well here papers are sent to voters registered address - and they can either return them by post or in person

How do they guard against people making multiple copies and submitting them - does each paper have a unique barcode or similar which is scanned on receipt?

[niemeyjt]

How do they guard against people making multiple copies and submitting them - does each paper have a unique barcode or similar which is scanned on receipt?

I guess so - as I am not able to vote I only know why my colleague told me. But it is the same paper either by post or in the box on the day - you take the ballot paper to the polling station,

This does eliminate postal voting and personation fraud seen in the UK.

[Blaze]

By definition the result would be what the people wanted. Whether it is what the more stroppy people want is another matter.
However as I say above it would in general terms allow elements of a manifesto to be changed / challenged whilst still allowing people to vote for someone rather than against someone.

If the objectors bothered to vote!
As for "getting what / who they want", I've watched the French moaning about each president and his policies for 32 years. There's never an alternative put forward and when you ask the moaner concerned, it's more than likely that they never voted at all.

Absolutely right, that's it in a nutshell, Mad. It doesn't matter who becomes President, the French will complain.

Why is there such a poor turn out for elections ? Don't people realise that if they did bother to vote, they might (and it's a big might) get what they want.
Then again, if they don't like what's on offer, why don't they do something about it ? There's a simple answer : it's not worth bothering.